Witnesses in jd20010530.html

DEMJANJUK 2001 TRIAL
(Cleveland, May 29 - June 07, 2001)
SUMMARY of TRANSCRIPTS

Charles Sydnor; P00268 - 897; 2001/05/30 - 06/06; Vols. 2 - 6
[2001/05/30, Wed.; P00268 - 366, Vol. 2; Sydnor]
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P00268f - Charles Wright Sydnor, President and CEO of Commonwealth Public Broadcasting Corporation in Richmond, Virginia, for past 10 years.
- GE14 = Government Exhibit 14 = resume of Charles Sydnor
- BA(1965), Vanderbilt MA(1967), Ph.D. History (1971), in between was in Freiburg University, Germany
- Ph.D. thesis on Totenkopf Division; German concentration camps; General Odilo Globocnik
- Germans "said certain things which meant other things."
- Did research in Auschwitz Library in Poland in June 1987.
- [At time of Demjanjuk Jerusalem Trial.]
- President of Emory & Henry College in February of 1984.
- Doesn't read or speak a word of Russian.
- Did research in the KGB archives in Moscow [???]

P00290 - Sydnor: "the real focus of my interest in the last decade has been Reinhardt Heydrich"; assassinated [by British-trained agents] in late May 1942, [died June 4, 1942]; his special relationship to Friedrich Wilhelm Kruger and Odilo Globocnik.
- [W.Z. The mother of Heydrich was Jewish.]

P00292f - Published "Soldiers of Destruction", Princeton University Press, November 1977, based on Ph.D. thesis.
- plans to publish book on Heydrich in fall of 2001 with reference to Ploetz, Johann Schwarzenbacher, Ernst Heinrich Teufel
- Publishes his books in the French and German languages to widen readership.

P00301f - Sydnor collaborated with many Holocaust Industry historians:
Henri Michel, Saul Friedman, Professor Douglas A. Unfug, Bertran Perz, Michael Zimmerman, Florian Freund, Peter Black, Arieh Kochavi.

P00309 - Sydnor produced 3 Holocaust documentaries.
P00310 - has testified as expert witness about 17 times; Hajda case in Chicago, Jacob Reimer in New York city, Kwoczak, Nicholas Schiffer, Theodore Szezhinsky in Philadelphia.
- non-OSI cases of Johann Breyer, restitution payments of American POWs in German camps, Degussa precluding redress for East-European slave laborers.

P00315 - prepared a 1984 affidavit for OSI on Trawniki card.
- January 1987 discussion in Israel with Gabriel Finder on prosecution team.

P00318f - Tigar "voir dire" of Sydnor
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- last full time teaching was in 1980, no full time jobs since then, except as CEO for his own company.
- in 1989 Sydnor called Mr. Demjanjuk a monster.

P00321 - Tigar: "You said that he would be hanged and that the cause of justice will never have been better served. You said that, correct?"
- "You also said that his attorneys, American attorneys, were shrill anti-Semites, correct?"
- [Sydnor admits to both, but doesn't remember whether it was Martin or O'Connor.]
- "Mr. Demjanjuk's defense or cause was funded by the same circles that have combined wealth and hatred to support radical right wing causes in our land for more than a generation."
- Judge Einhorn told him money was coming from circles in U.S. and Canada.
- Sydnor admits that he was wrong that John Demjanjuk was Ivan of Treblinka.

P00325 - "Peter Black, who at that time was the chief staff historian at OSI, who is now the senior research historian at the Holocaust Museum in Washington."

P00328 - On pages 197 and 235 of his book "Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka", Yitzhak Arad states: "Ukrainian Iwan Demjanjuk was Ivan the Terrible at Treblinka." He, too, was wrong.

P00330 - Sydnor read the report of the special master [Thomas Wiseman] but did not read Sixth Circuit judgment ruling that OSI perpetrated fraud on the court.

P00331 - Sydnor worked 107 days with OSI historians on his expert opinion, but will be only paid for about 30 days.

P00338 - Sydnor admits that he doesn't read Russian and relies on certified translations.

P00345 - Sydnor in Moscow with Dr. Steven Coe, Russian-speaking OSI historian.

P00348 - reference to Helmut Leonhardt.
- Wolfgang Scheffler, Professor Ziemke made same mistake about Demjanjuk as Sydnor.

P00350f - The following 7 people helped prepare Sydnor's report:
- Peter Black, Holocaust Museum
- Dr. Barrie (Elizabeth) White, chief historian at OSI
- Dr. David Rich, staff historian at OSI
- Dr. Jeffrey Richter, Russian-speaking OSI historian
- Dr. Steven Coe, OSI employee, studied Moscow State University
- Dr. Todd Huebner, OSI historian
- Michael MacQueen, OSI historian

- Did not work with Ruth-Bettina Birn [of Canadian War Crimes Unit]
- [W.Z. Wow! All pimps for the Holocaust Industry!]

P00355 - Sydnor's report dated April 30, 2001 does not indicate that other people had selected the footnotes and contributed to the report.

P00357f - Matia tells Tigar who has been crucifying Sydnor: "Well, I think you are taking a very, very limited and narrow and outmoded view of expert reports."
- Tigar says Sydnor is not qualified as expert.
- Tigar cites U.S. Supreme Court ruling of fraud on the Court because an alleged independent expert signed a report prepared by the lawyers.
- "the same thing has happened here."

P00360 - Except for the 4 Trawniki ID cards, all original documents are going back tomorrow (May 31, 2001).
- [WHY?]

P00362f - Tigar questions Sydnor about green book bound in red tape (GE4?) viewed by Sydnor at OSI headquarters in presence of Mr. Domarkos, Stutman, Drimmer, Huebner, Rich for 2 hours last summer or about a year ago.
- Tigar specifically asks Sydnor to read overnight a document therein titled "Order for the Lithuanian security guards", dated Lublin, Nov. 17, 1943.

P00366 - **** END of Sydnor testimony on 2001/05/30 ****

Charles Sydnor; P00367 - 564; 2001/05/31; Vol. 3
[2001/05/31, Thu.; P00367 - 564, Vol. 3; Sydnor]
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P00367f - Tigar continues voir dire questioning of Sydnor.
P00369 - Sydnor has not read book of Ruth-Bettina Birn, "A Nation on Trial" and is not familiar with work of Norman Finkelstein, [The Holocaust Industry].
- He knows Raul Hilberg personally.

P00371 - Defense Exhibit DD = DE DD = Sydnor's 1984 affidavit.
- Tigar says there are 4 reasons why Sydnor's testimony is not admissible.

P00372f - Drimmer redirect introduction of Sydnor.
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- Drimmer lists some publications of Sydnor since 1980:
- "The Historiography of the SS" in the Simon Wiesenthal Center Annual.
- "The Concentration Camps and Killing Centers of the Third Reich" in Saul Friedman's book.
- "Executive Instinct", Reinhardt Heydrich, and "The Planning of the Final Solution" in the Abraham Peck book.
- new material for "Soldiers of Destruction".

P00378 - Sydnor testified in 3 previous cases involving Trawniki:
- Bronislaw Hajda, 1997, Trawniki and Treblinka I (labor camp)
- Jacob Reimer, 1998, Trawniki and Warsaw ghetto in 1943, Streibel Battalion.
- Fedir Kwoczak in Philadelphia, January 2000, Poniatowa labor camp.

P00384f - Tigar: "We have four reasons why Dr. Sydnor's testimony should not be received and heard by the Court."
- "We are not shrill anti-Semites and we are not deniers of the Holocaust."
- "... whenever the Holocaust deniers came in the door, Mr. Nishnic and I escorted them out immediately and told them we didn't want anything to do with them."
- (1) Sydnor is not a historian of the stature of Hilberg or Arad.
- (2) "Dr. Sydnor's testimony should be excluded because in our respectful submission he was part and parcel of the fraud that the Sixth Circuit found at F.3d, 338."
- (3) U.S. Supreme Court judgment "traditional Rule 702, Daubert "
- (4) "My final point is Rule 702 must be interpreted in accordance with our historic notions of due process."

P00395f - Tigar rambles on about his own experiences, supports "common law" judgments, rejects "trial by archive".

P00398f - Drimmer supports Sydnor as expert witness.
P00403 - Matia: "But for purposes of Daubert, I believe that Dr. Sydnor's qualifications as an expert historian have been established."

P00405f - Drimmer direct examination of Sydnor.
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- GE14 = 8.5" x 11'' map of Europe indicating location of cities.
- GE3 = Trawniki ID card #1393, purportedly belonging to John Demjanjuk.
- GE4 = Jan. 20, 1943 report of Erlinger at Lublin Majdanek concerning breaking of quarantine by Demjanjuk (#1393), Pasenok (#900), Peretjalko (#1469), Tuktarov (#1730)

P00410- "The prisoner of war camp of the Waffen SS" = Majdanek, is in the southeastern quadrant of the city of Lublin.

P00412 - GE5 = Sobibor transfer roster of 84 men from Trawniki, March 26, 1943, which includes name of Iwan Demjanjuk.

P00415 - GE6 = Flossenburg transfer roster of 140 men from Trawniki, Oct. 1, 1943, which includes name similar to Iwan Demjanjuk.
- Flossenburg is located in Germany proper about 5 miles from Czech border.

P00418 - GE7 = weapons and equipment log of Flossenburg dated April 1, 1944, in which the name Demianiuk appears for rifle issued on Oct. 8, 1943 on page 69, and on page 25 for bayonet issued on the same date.

P00423 - GE8 = daily duty roster for Flossenburg for Oct. 4, 1944 dated Oct. 3, 1944, with name Demenjuk, #1393 therein.

P00428 - GE9 = personnel inventory of Trawniki-trained guards at the Flossenburg concentration camp, undated, in which "emenjuk", #1393 appears.
- Sydnor feels this list was created between Dec. 10, 1944 and Jan. 15, 1945.

P00432f - Sydnor outlines the chronological events associated with these documents

P00446 - Drimmer quotes from Demjanjuk's Jan. 14, 1980 deposition (GE89?), where he admitted his date of birth, father's name Nikolai, etc.

P00448 - GE2.2 = Demjanjuk's 1951 visa application.
- GE2.5 = 1948 IRO application form

P00449 - Tigar interrupts Drimmer and reads Demjanjuk's answers to questions 11 and 12 (in GE89?), where in each case it is written:
"Answer: Denied. Omissions if any were made in conjunction with and upon the advice of IRO officials to prevent repatriation of the defendant to the Soviet Union."

P00451 - GE77 = interrogation of Ignat Danilchenko, Dniepropetrowsk, March 2, 1949.

P00454 - GE89 = Demjanjuk's 1980 deposition
P00456 - GE92 = Demjanjuk's testimony in 1981
P00458 - GE87 = identification session with Ignat Danilchenko, dated Nov. 22, 1979, Tyumen, in which he recognized Demjanjuk.

P00459 - Sydnor never ran across the name Ivan Andreevich Demjanjuk.
- GE100 = Demjanjuk deposition of July 12, 2000,
- where on page 161 there is reference to Ivan Andreevich Demjanjuk.
- GE98 = Demjanjuk testimony of Aug. 5, 1987.

P00463f - GE102 = birth registry of Feb. 9, 1921, of Ioann Demyanyuk.
- under father's name first name is Andrey
- [W.Z. There is some sort of mix-up in Sydnor's testimony between Andrey and Nikolai.]

P00468f - Sydnor expounds on the SS [Schutzstaffel] as the core of Hitler's dictatorship. It controlled the police, the concentration camps, the einsatzkommandos, the extermination camps.

- Heinrich Himmler "wanted to create a series of Germanic settlements and strong points. He wanted to uproot and deport to other areas of the east a good bit of the Polish population from the areas of the general government that were under German occupation. And of course, the Germans planned to exterminate all the Jews they could get their hands on ..."

P00470 - "Globocnik, the SS and Police Order in Lublin, who was one of Himmler's most trusted subordinates, was invested with the assignment to undertake the physical extermination of all the Jews living in Poland during the war, and Globocnik needed manpower to carry that out, so the Trawniki-trained men who were recruited, and they included not only prisoners of war captured from Soviet units in 1941 and 42, they also included civilian recruits from among the populations of Poland and Ukraine and the Baltic states, these men were to carry out the functions of what became known as Operation Reinhardt, which was the SS code name for the physical extermination of the Jews of Poland."

"The code name for the operation was bestowed on the memory of Reinhardt Heydrich, who was assassinated by Czech commandos and died on June the 4th, 1942. That's where the name Operation Reinhardt comes from."

"So the Trawniki-trained guards were involved in providing physical security for the SS estates in Poland. They were responsible for rounding up Jews in smaller villages in the rural areas of occupied Poland and moving them into the big cities. They were responsible for clearing the Jews out of the big cities' ghettos and loading them onto the trains that took them to the death camps. They were responsible for guarding the trains on the way to the death camps, and Trawniki-trained guards provided, of course, the guard contingents that served in the death camps themselves."

"Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka all had contingents of 120 to 150 Trawniki-trained guards at any one time, and a permanent administrative group of 20 to 30 Germans, SS officers and noncommissioned officers, who ran the camps. But the Trawniki-trained guards provided the security and handled the incoming transports and assisted the Germans in the physical extermination of the victims who were transported to the camps."

- [W.Z. THE ABOVE SCENARIO PAINTED BY SYDNOR IS THE VERY CRUX OF WHAT THE THE DEMJANJUK TRIALS AND THE DENATURALIZATION TRIALS IN THE UNITED STATES AND CANADA ARE ABOUT. THE HOLOCAUST INDUSTRY WANTS TO CREATE THE IMPRESSION THAT ANYONE ASSOCIATED WITH TRAWNIKI (OR WHO WORKED FOR THE GERMANS EITHER VOLUNTARILY OR INVOLUNTARILY) IS A WAR CRIMINAL. IN THIS WAY, NO PROOF OF INDIVIDUAL CRIMINALITY IS REQUIRED.]

P00471f - Sydnor starts expounding in detail about Operation Reinhardt and Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka, but is eventually cut short by Tigar and Matia.

P00473 = GE65 = Jan. 5, 1943 (possibly 1944) report of Odilo Globocnik to Heinrich Himmler summarizing the accomplishments of Operation Reinhardt.

P00478 - GE44 = GE44.1 to GE44.12 = 12 Trawniki Personalbogen (personnel record)
P00479 - GE44.2 and GE44.3 are original Personalbogen.
P00480f -
GE44.1 = Kusma Sokur (#569)
GE44.2 = Samuel Prischtsch (#941)
GE44.3 = ???? ???? (#1280)
- Unfortunately, Tigar objects so we don't have the other names and numbers.
- Demjanjuk's Personalbogen is not among them.
- Sydnor says that one-fifth to one-fourth of 5000 Personalbogen issued survived WWII (i.e. 1000 - 1250)

P00484f - GE45 = GE45.1 to GE45.42 = 42 Trawniki Dienstausweis (service pass)
- There are, at least, two formats for these Dienstausweis.
- The first form "on the front lists the command authority as the commissioner of the Reichsfuhrer SS for the establishment of SS and police bases in the new eastern territories."
- [W.Z. This is presumably the form for Demjanjuk #1393 = GE3.]
- The second form "is listed as the SS and Police Leader in the Lublin District, the Trawniki training camp."
- GE45.7 = Danilchenko (#1016) signed by Johann Schwarzenbacher is an example of this form.

P00487 - GE42 = SS pay record card for Ernst Teufel, which indicates that on July 19, 1942 he was promoted to rank of SS Sergeant [Unterscharfuhrer] from SS corporal [Rottenfuhrer]

P00490f - GE34 = summary document indicating when men captured in May 1942 reached Trawniki (between 13 June and 21 July, 1942).
- Constantine Dimida (#443)
- Tigar points out that he and the following three men
- Sucharyba (#557)
- Ruban (#1986)
- ???? (#1983)
- arrived on 6/26/42 (June 26, 1942)

P00493 - GE101 = May 7, 2001 letter from General Procuracy of Ukraine to U.S. Embassy stating that they have no record of an Ivan Andreevich Demjanjuk in the SBU files or mobilization call up.

P00497f - GE44.7 = Bondarenko (#1926) Personalbogen indicating he arrived in Trawniki on June 13, 1942 and was assigned to Lublin detachment on July 20, 1942, then the Poniatowa labor camp on Nov. 3, 1942, back to Trawniki on Feb. 24, 1943, and to Treblinka labor camp on March 22, 1943.

P00499 - GE45.17 = Bondarenko (#1926) Dienstausweis signed by Karl Streibel has only the Poniatowa, Nov. 3, 1942 posting listed.

P00501f - Okzow "was one of the estates confiscated by the SS and run as an agriculture enterprise. It was near the town of Chelm ..."
- GE19 = map indicating location of Okzow.
- Trawniki men were sent to guard the laborers against "Polish" partisan attacks and to also help with the harvest.
- GE44.6 = Ivan Chapajew (#1687) assigned to Okraw on Sept. 22, 1942.
- GE45.9 = Ivan Kutschnijtschuk (#1123) assigned to Okzow on Sept. 22, 1942

P00504f - GE31 = illustration of Majdanek concentration camp in southeastern quadrant of Lublin, constructed between autumn 1941 and spring 1942, commanded by Karl Otto Koch.
- originally planned to hold 150,000 POWs, but scaled back and run as concentration and extermination camp by SS, where several 100,000 prisoners died.

P00508 - Sydnor confirms Drimmer's statement that there were gas chambers operational in January 1943 in Majdanek.
- Sydnor explains the circumstances of GE4 where 4 Trawniki men at Majdanek were punished with "25 blows administered with a stick on January the 21st, 1943" for breaking a typhus quarantine on Jan. 18, 1943.

P00510 - GE55 = report of incident similar to GE4 above.
- GE55 was found in the Majdanek Museum; whereas GE4 was found in Lithuania, but both have similar stamps, inks, signatures and handwriting.

P00513 - GE56 = Jan. 24, 1943 Lublin Majdanek document concerning 2 Ukrainians frequenting a Polish cat house:
- Paul Makarenko (#445)
- Wladas Amanawitschius (#1640),
- who survived the war (actually Lithuanian) in Belgium, interrogated [long after WWII] and admitted being in Majdanek.

P00515 - GE57 = which presumably refers to someone in Moscow.
- Tigar objects.
- Proper designation is "Waffen SS Prisoner of War Camp at Lublin, and after the war it's more commonly known as Majdanek."

P00518 - GE82 = English translation of the interrogation protocol of Zaki Tuktarov (#1730) dated 1 February 1965,
- where he indicates he was sent with other guards to Majdanek in summer of 1942.

P00524 - GE45.14 = Nurgali Kabirow (#1337) Dienstausweis, assigned to Sobibor on March 27, 1943.

P00528 - GE44.8 = Myron Flunt (#2804) was murdered by two Jews on the afternoon of 23rd of July, 1943 at the Sobibor detachment. Burial on July 24, 1943 was at Hero Cemetery in Trawniki.
- [W.Z. Why wouldn't he be thrown in the pits or burned in Sobibor?]

P00532f - GE60 = July 1, 1943 report to Lublin headquarters from Sobibor that two men had deserted on night of June 30/July 1, 1943:
- Ivan Kakarasch (#1790)
- Konstantin Dimida (#443)
- the Dienstausweis of both is enclosed. [???]

P00535 - GE35 = summary exhibit
P00538 - Sydnor refers to book of Dutch Sobibor survivor, Jules Schelvis, The History of the Sobibor Death Camp
- Administration of Sobibor camp included Erich Bauer, Karl August Wilhelm Frenzel, Hubert Igomerski, and Karl-Heinz Bollender.

P00540 - GE32 = diagram of Sobibor camp according to memories of SS Sergeant Erich Bauer and a survivor of Sobibor, Mr. Thomas Blatt.

P00545 - GE47 = Aug. 19, 1943 medical record of Anatoli Gontscharenko (#561) referring to eye injury and transfer to Lublin hospital. Sent back to Sobibor on Sept. 15, 1943.
- documents were found in both German and Soviet archives.

P00552 - Johann Schelvis arrived in Sobibor on June 4, 1943, and escaped with about 50 others during uprising on Oct. 14, 1943.
- Sydnor is exhausted and is excused.

P00554 - Ms. Michelle Heyer reads in supplementary answers from Mr. Demjanjuk on April 14, 1980, such as
"Answer: Admit. Omissions were made in conjunction with and upon advice of IRO officials to prevent repatriation of the defendant to the Soviet Union."
- as well as later depositions.

P00564 - **** END Sydnor testimony on 2001/05/31 in Vol. 3 ****

Charles Sydnor; P00565 - 671; 2001/06/01; Vol. 4
[2001/06/01, Fri.; P00565 - 671, Vol. 4; Sydnor]
[Top] [2001/05/30] [2001/05/31] [2001/06/01] [2001/06/05] [2001/06/06] [Bottom]

P00565f - Drimmer presented Tigar "just 5 minutes ago" a set of proposed stipulations for Sydnor to testify about guard duties.
- Drimmer suggests 30 minutes for Tigar to respond, but Tigar insists he will need the weekend.

P00571f - Drimmer direct examination of Sydnor.
- Drimmer starts by having Sydnor reiterate that Trawniki-trained guards participated in implementing all of the phases of Operation Reinhardt.
- Tigar objects.

P00572 - Sydnor says the Soviets treatment of the documents was "crude and vandalous". They wrote all over them so they look like graffiti.
- Sydnor repeats much of the previous day's testimony.

P00578 - GE33 = March 23, 1945 U.S. aerial reconnaissance photograph of the Flossenburg concentration camp.
- [W.Z. We note there is no reference to U.S. aerial reconnaissance photographs of Treblinka or Babyn Yar.]
- Sydnor keeps describing activities in Flossenburg despite a standing objection of Tigar.

P00581 - GE72 = Prosecution exhibit at Nurnberg re Flossenburg.
- GE73 = U.S. 7th Army consolidated interrogation report dated August 4th, 1945, summary of interviews with inmates of Flossenberg.
- about 20,000 prisoners died in Flossenberg during WWII.
- [W.Z. Sydnor doesn't mention what fraction of these were Jewish.]
- the assignment from Trawniki to Flossenberg was permanent.

P00590 GE6 = "Enclosed, 133 paybooks"
- These acted as ID cards for Waffen SS personnel and presumably replaced the Trawniki Dienstausweis.

P00599 - GE68 = The duty roster for Sept. 15-16, 1944, signed by Bruno Skierka
- Ilya Baidin (#2345), already killed on Dec. 10, 1944

P00603 - GE 38 = summary of Trawniki-trained men who left the Flossenburg main camp before Dec. 10, 1944.

P00605 - Sydnor estimates Mr. Demjanjuk was in Flossenberg from sometime on or after Oct. 8, 1943, until sometime on or after Dec. 10, 1944.

P00606 - GE82 = Feb. 1, 1965 interrogation of Zaki Tuktarov in Krasnodar.
P00607 - GE83 = July 8, 1966 memo re file K779
P00608 - GE80 = Undated English-language translation of captured documents in which reference is made to Deminyuk, Peretelko, Pazenok and Tuktarov
- Sydnor suggests that the date is in the 1950s.
- [W.Z. By whom was it translated?]

P00609 - Defense Exhibit B2 = DE B2 = English-language translation for a Soviet card for Ivan Andreevich Demjanjuk, not dated.
- Some Soviet investigator conducted an investigation of someone named Ivan Andreevich Demjanjuk born in Dubovye Macharenzi and wrote Trawniki, Lublin, and L'viv on the investigation card.
- [W.Z. Why no date?]

P00612 - GE76 = "USSR, Ministry for State Security, top secret, 4th Directorate, distributed only by special roster, information on wanted persons."
- "The Ministry of State Security of the Union of SSR seeks the following traitors to the motherland who had undergone training at the training camp in Trawniki."
- Entry 19 is Ivan Nikolaievich Demjanjuk (with exact particulars as on GE3, the Trawniki ID card #1393) plus
- "From 1 October 1943 he served as a guard at the Flossenburg concentration camp." (as on GE6)
- The date of this document is Aug. 31, 1948.
- On GE3 Bazilevskaya wrote March 12, 1948.
- Tigar: "This is a wanted poster from 1948."

- [W.Z. If Mr. Demjanjuk was on a wanted poster as early as August 1948, and Demjanjuk corresponded with his family in the early 1950s, why did the Soviet Union wait until 1975 to act?]

P00618 - GE79 = "Search particulars for the Ministry of State Security 4th Directorate" dated 29 July 1952, with Lithuanian archival stamp.
- Tigar objects and makes a very long speech about Ryan-Rekunkov January 1980 agreement, which the Soviet Union obviously did not uphold.

P00620 - Tigar re GE79: "we look at the Russian original, item 12, we have a picture that is identical to the picture on the Trawniki card that mysteriously appeared in the United States in 1981 as a result of that agreement, same picture, Your Honor."
- [W.Z. EXACTLY THE SAME PHOTOGRAPH???]
- "this is part and parcel of the Soviet fraud on the courts of the United States," since they knew that John Demjanjuk was not Ivan of Treblinka.

P00621 - Matia: "But this is 2001, and the Russia of 2001 is not the same country as the Soviet Union of 1981."
- [W.Z. But is the new Russia any better than the old Soviet Union?]
- Matia: "If the authorities of a foreign country provide information to the United States Government in batches, that's not the fault of the United States Government if they have made a sincere effort to obtain that information."
- [W.Z. The OSI can certainly be accused of being not sincere!]

P00622 - Matia denies Tigar's motion to exclude these documents.
- GE79, page 6 of original language version presumably has a photo of John Demjanjuk in the upper left hand side.
- [W.Z. It is not clear if this photo is identical to that on the Trawniki ID card.]

P00623f - GE76 = archival certification is Lithuanian dated Aug. 31, 1948
- GE76A = archival certification is General Procuracy of Ukraine referring to an all union search by MGB dated August 31, 1948.

- "Announced as a subject for an all union search on the basis of search particulars from the 4th Directorate MGB, Ministry of State Security USSR, Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, dated 31 August 1948, entry number 19. Ivan Nikolaievich Demjanjuk."

- GE76A = found in SBU archive in Ukraine a similar document dated July 29, 1952 referring to Ivan Nikolaievich Demjanjuk.

P00628f - Tigar cross-examination of Sydnor.
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- Tigar questions Sydnor's methodology
- Saying that a statement is authentic does not mean that it is truthful.

P00632f - Presumably every Trawniki-trained guard had issued to him both a Dienstausweis (service pass) and a Personalbogen (personnel file).
- Of assumed total of 5000, the OSI has found only 39 Dienstausweis.
- [W.Z. Presumably, these are all in GE45.1 to GE45.42.]
- Sydnor has seen some 350 Personalbogen.
- [W.Z. Presumably, these are all in GE44.1 to GE44.12.]
- Only Bondarenko (#1926) has both a Dienstausweis and Personalbogen.
- When Sydnor wrote his report in 1984 he not seen any other Dienstausweis.

P00640 - No DNA or finger print testing has been attempted.
P00643f - GE44.1, Sokur (#569) compared against GE3, Demjanjuk (#1393)
- The Danilchenko statement (GE86) is full of contradictions:
- Demjanjuk arrived before Danilchenko discrepancy with transfer list
- 187 cm vs 175 cm
- no sign of wounds vs scar on back
- Demjanjuk wore a black SS uniform with gray collar, which is not accepted.

P00652 - Einhorn did not show the Danilchenko document to Sydnor in 1984.
P00653f - Sydnor: "Yes, sir, I know Neil Sher very well."
- many of the Dienstausweis in GE45 are not signed, some have x marks
- numbers do not seem to be assigned in chronological order.
- low numbers assigned to later dates, high numbers assigned at early dates.
- in late 1943 there are 4 digit numbers completely out of sequence.

P00658f - long aside about Thomas Jefferson controversy, DNA testing, etc.
- Sydnor sent Tigar an Email saying any conversations with him must be in presence of a court reporter.
- 4 problems with non-recorded conversations: meaning, memory, perception and bias.
- Sydnor's father was a lawyer in Richmond.

P00664f - Sydnor agrees that it is only common sense that many people would use false identities to hide their involvement with Germans.
- Tigar meanders on about false IDs in U.S., refugees via Ellis Island, errors by bureaucracies, etc.

P00671 - **** END of Sydnor testimony on 2001/06/01 and Vol. 4 ****

Charles Sydnor; P00672 - 857; 2001/06/05; Vol. 5
[2001/06/05, Tue.; P00672 - 857, Vol. 5; Sydnor]
[Top] [2001/05/30] [2001/05/31] [2001/06/01] [2001/06/05] [2001/06/06] [Bottom]

P00672f - Tigar continues cross-examination of Sydnor.
- Tigar starts with GE3, the Trawniki ID card #1393
- Tigar: "And if 1393, as described on that pass, is not John Demjanjuk, the defendant now on trial, then none of the other government exhibits refer to him either, is that correct? Would you agree with that?"
- Sydnor: "Yes, sir, I would have to agree to that."

P00675 - Sydnor has seen only one Waffen SS pay book associated with Flossenburg, and that was for a German.

P00676f - Helmut Leonhardt, testified in 1973 trial, arrived in Trawniki on June 18, 1942, assigned by Karl Streibel for office duty under Albert Drechsel, took over the card filing system which was a total shambles.

P00678 - There are no known samples from this card filing system.
- Sydnor: "I have never seen an example out of a card file, and to the best of my knowledge, the card file did not survive the war."

P00680f - Sydnor was first contacted as expert witness in summer of 1999, started counting his 107 days in January 2000, was paid for 15 days in 2000 and will be paid for 30 days in 2001, has a written contract (OSI standard witness agreement for document review, trial preparation, court time) which has no procedures listed therein.
- In addition to Moscow and Berlin, Sydnor viewed documents either at OSI headquarters or in his Richmond, Virginia office. Did not go to Kyiv, Lithuania, Jerusalem, etc.

P00690f - The Sobibor uprising on Oct. 14, 1943, (as described in Raul Hilberg's 1985 3 volume book Destruction of the European Jews) was organized by Soviet POW Pechersky resulted in 9 SS men and 2 collaborators dead.
- 50 or 100 people escaped and survived.
- Sydnor is "unaware that the OSI ever asked any of these survivors to identify Mr. Demjanjuk."

P00693f - Sydnor: "I've known David Marwell since 1975, since he was a graduate student, and he was one of the first two original staff historians at OSI. And he was the last director of the Berlin Document Center as a state department repository."
- Talked to him in 1980s about tattoos, and said that it was unlikely Ukrainian guards would have tattoos.

P00695f - Tigar refers to GE5 (Sobibor list) and GE6 (Flossenberg list) and points out 5 names where dates and places of birth are contradictory.
- Sydnor has no idea how this information was obtained and how it was entered. He agrees that things can get pretty garbled when transmitting information, especially in a foreign tongue.

T00705f - GE101, letter from General Procuracy of Ukraine to U.S. Embassy is signed by Kabenets which makes it "authentic" but does not make the contents inside "truthful".
- Presumably, it says that they have no military record of Ivan Andreevich Demjanjuk.
- Sydnor discussed it with Huebner and Drimmer.
- Presumably, the military records of Ivan Nikolaievich Demjanjuk cannot be found either.

P00708 - Some lady relative of Ivan Andreevich Demjanjuk stated that this individual was from the same village, was of different age, had moved to central Asia after WWII, returned, rumors about Vlasov Army, marital difficulties, committed suicide in 1970.

P00712 - Junior lieutenant Bazilevskaya of the MGB wrote purple Russian translations on many of the Dienstausweis in about March 1948.
- Neither the OSI or Israelis attempted to contact Ms. Bazilevskaya
- [W.Z. Which indicates that both the OSI and the Israelis have been acting in bad faith.]

P00713 - There are no archival records of where these files came from or how they got to the FSB archives in Moscow.
- Sydnor: "In the FSB Archive there are only the file memos that summarize the contents of the collection, but I don't recall seeing any information that establishes a chronological pattern of where the documents moved from the time they were seized until the time they ended up in the KGB archive."
- [W.Z. Why does Sydnor assume that these Dienstausweis were seized? They simply don't know.]
- All 39 Dienstausweis are still in the KGB archive in Russia.

- GE4 (big book with green cover and red tape) is now in Lithuania with no record where it came from and how it got to Vilnius with a blue folder in the Polish language.
- Mr. Domarkos stated that the file had been in Moscow and was sent to Vilnius,
- Tigar: "but there's no archival record to show when it was moved and what the motivation was for moving, is that correct?"

P00715 - Large number of WWII documents are still classified in U.S.
P00716 - "May 10, 1945 Joint Chiefs of Staff directive to General Eisenhower" to allow certain Nazis entry to U.S. for intelligence reasons.
- Werner von Braun, for example.

P00721 - GE45.22 = Swesdun, did not provide correct date and place of birth.

P00723f - DE F6 = Nov. 19, 1976, interview of Dov Freiburg, a Sobibor survivor, by Harold Jacobs, INS investigator.
- OSI did not give this document to Sydnor.
- Zakharov gave false name Prus to Germans.
- Ivchenko identified photo of Demjanjuk, but did not place him in Sobibor, and did not know the name Demjanjuk.
- Razgonyayev claims he was in Trawniki and Sobibor, but does not recognize name or photograph.

P00727 - Litvinenko remembered a Demjanjuk who was of "average height, average build, blond hair, and he says had two false white metal teeth in his upper jaw". He also served with him in Lviv.
- Sydnor was skeptical about the protocol.
- Litvinenko was interviewed in 1949, was tried twice and convicted in the 1960s.

P00736 - Tigar: "Do you believe as a historian that one great service of the trials of Nazi collaborators is to help establish the historical record of the Nazi Holocaust and to place those events beyond the reach of revisionist historians who may seek to deny the horrors of that Holocaust?"

P00737 - Sydnor: "Yes, sir, I do."
- [W.Z. This is sick! Sydnor is admitting that he and the OSI are Holocaust pimps willing to subvert justice on behalf of the Holocaust Industry.]

P00739 - Footnote 59 of Sydnor's report cites interviews of Danilchenko (on March 2, 1949 and Nov. 21, 1979) and of Litvinenko (on June 28, 1949) as evidence that Demjanjuk was in Trawniki.
- Danilchenko says he left Sobibor in the spring of 1944.
- Danilchenko died in 1985.

P00748f - DE B2 = Soviet card for Ivan Andreevich Demyanyuk, which was brought to Sydnor's office in Dec. 2000 by Dr. Huebner.
- Presumably, this "Sovetskaya kartochka" came as a result of OSI inquiries to the relevant authorities in the Russian Federation and Ukraine.
- The name Litvinenko appears on this card.
- This document is at odds with Sydnor's footnote 59, where he refers to Ivan Nikolaievich Demjanjuk.
- two different types of Cyrillic handwriting.

P00764 - Sydnor claims he isn't aware of what documents the OSI withheld from the defense, but Tigar refers to Thomas Wiseman's report, which Sydnor read.

P00769 - Tigar questions reliability of Procuracy of Ukraine (refers to Melnychenko tapes of Kuchma) and of the Russian Federation.

P00771f - Reference to Armand Hammer.
- Tigar: "Please give this document to Mr. A. Hammer and advise him that no other documents on Demjanjuk's case have been found"?
- "When you read Judge Wiseman's opinion, did you as a historian conclude that the foreign suppliers of information had been somewhat less than thorough?"

P00773 - DE B2 (re Ivan Andreevich Demjanjuk) "contains a reference to a sensitive file", which Sydnor has not seen.
- [W.Z. I don't know what Tigar is talking about.]
- Tigar: "Were you aware that this document was before Judge Matia in earlier proceedings with respect to setting aside the denaturalization judgment?"

P00775f - DE B25 = March 22, 1961 interrogation of Mr. Engelhard.
- DE B25 = March 23, 1961 interrogation of Mr. Engelhard, where he failed to identify Mr. Demjanjuk or 2 others.
- Tigar: "And even from the picture, the copy that you have, can you tell that the picture on the right-hand side appears to be identical to that on Government 3, the 1393 pass?"
- Sydnor: "Yes, sir, it appears to be the same photograph."
- [W.Z. Was this a b/w print made from the same negative? Or was it a photograph of a photograph?]

P00777f - Engelhard quote: "I know well that the men shown in photographs number 1, 2 and 3 did not serve with me when I served in the death camp in Sobibor. None of them served under me."
- Tigar: "Now, would you regard that as an exculpatory statement with respect to what we are trying here?"
- Engelhard quote: "In approximately September, 1942, I departed from Trawniki and went to Warsaw to guard the confines of the Jewish ghetto."
- So Engelhard didn't see Demjanjuk neither in Trawniki nor in Sobibor.
- Tigar presses Sydnor: "Well, then we come back. Why didn't you cite the 23rd March reference when you were doing your work?"

P00781 - Statement of Maria Avramivna Dem'yanyuk:
- I.A. Demjanjuk called into Red Army in 1940, rumors that he was in Vlasov Army, went to central Asia, came back, he and wife didn't talk about war, took to drinking, wife took to cheating, he hanged himself [on Jan. 8, 1970].

P00782f - Sydnor discusses Andrei Vlasov and Vlasov's Army.
P00784 - reference to Pokhavla, who changed his name after the war, and Kwoczak.

P00785f - GE4 = disciplinary report at Majdanek in "green book with the red cover from Lithuania"
- purple ink Cyrillic handwriting from 1948
- Doesn't know where it was before 1948 or after 1948.
- not in chronological order, hand cut along top.

P00787 - GE5 written on onionskin, contains names of Danilchenko and Demianiuk.
- The person who wrote this wasn't familiar with the information in GE3, so he had "hearsay" information.

P00791 - In 1966, Streibel said he tried to destroy all records of Trawniki when it was abandoned.
- In 1973, Leonhardt said the files were either stored in Trawniki or in Globocnik's office in Lublin.
- Tigar: "Is there anything you've ever seen in the Soviet archives that tells you that the particular documents about which you've testified were captured in either one of these two places?"
- Sydnor: "No, sir."

P00795f - Tigar refers to the misspellings in Demjanjuk's in GE6, GE7
- no record of who wrote them.
- The Flossenburg documents were seized by U.S. Army and used in Nurnberg trials.

P00799 - GE8 = Oct. 3, 1944, Flossenburg duty assignments.
P00800 - GE45.17 = Dienstausweis for Bondarenko, has missing duty assignments when compared to Personalbogen.

P00803 - GE36 = summary of the correlation between the Sobibor and Flossenburg rosters (GE5 and GE6).
- designed to show the consistencies between these two rosters, but not the inconsistencies.

P00804f - Tigar refers to GE37 which includes 11 people who admitted Flossenburg service but didn't identify Demjanjuk (except Danilchenko, who said Demjanjuk was 187 cm tall).

P00807f - Tigar refers to Robert Wolfe, an archivist
- Sydnor: "Yanov was a name of a camp, a forced labor camp for Jews that the SS created in the city of L'viv, ... , which the Germans called Lemberg in the Galician District of the Government General of Poland, and that camp was under the jurisdiction of the SS and Police Leader in the Galician District whose name was Katzmann. He was Globocnik's counterpart."

- Tigar implies that the Ivan A. card came from the Yanov investigation.
- Sydnor: "Mr. Litvinenko served at the Yanov camp as an armed guard."

P00810f - DE B17 = March 1969 UKGB, Lviv document which includes names of Mikhail Gorbachev and Iwan Demjanjuk, whose date of birth is given as 1918 to 1919.
- Inventory of people who have been tried and sentenced, and people who have not been located.

P00814 - Tigar: "Do you remember seeing any statement from any Flossenburg survivors that in any way implicates the John Demjanjuk who is on trial here today?"
- Sydnor: "No, sir, I have not."

P00814f - Drimmer re-direct examination of Sydnor.
**** **** **** **** **** **** **** ****
- Re-examines DE B1 (Litvinenko statement) and DE B2 (file card)
- Drimmer points out that in Litvinenko's statement he refers to teeth of 9 of the 23 persons listed.

P00824 - Drimmer introduces a new Government Exhibit, GE103:
- GE103 = Jan. 19, 1968 statement of Vasilij Nikiforovich Litvinenko.
- Litvinenko states that he drank heavily.

P00825 - DE B25 = Maria Avramivna statement, where she admits that her evidence is hearsay.
- refers to Zakharov changing name to Prus.

P00832 - Ivan Shuksow (#1281) in GE5, p3 and Shukow in GE6
Andrei Maschtschenko (#2466)
Martynow (#2467)
Pavel Mordwitschew (#2463)

P00839 - Trawniki-trained guards received tattoos when they were assigned to Flossenburg

P00842 - DE B3 = Sept. 18, 1979, Vinnitsya photo ID by Ivchenko where he presumably recognizes Demjanjuk but doesn't know his name.

P00843f - Defense exhibits for Ivan N. Swesdun (#2112):
- DE B9 = Trawniki Dienstausweis
- DE B14 = Sept. 29, 1947, Novosibirsk interrogation.
- DE B12 = Date of birth was Nov. 7, 1913 in Bukrejewo.

P00846f - DE F4 = Sept. 17, 1979, Vinnitsa interrogation of Razgonyayev.
- "During my service in the Trawniki training camp and Sobibor death camp, I communicated little with the Wachmenn [Wachmanner] and do not remember any of their names."

P00848 - Ivan A. Demjanjuk hanged himself on Jan. 8, 1970 (GE101); whereas DE B17 (indicating search for Ivan Demjanjuk) is dated March 17, 1969.

P00851f - DE C4 = Statement of Bob Wolfe, "regarding the [non]- reliability of Nazi-captured documents removed from their original archival context."
- Very long discourse; Sydnor has known Wolfe for 30 years, talked for hours
- After war U.S. send shiploads of documents to U.S., which were sent back in 1960s.
- Sydnor worked with Elisabeth Kinder, German archivist who catalogued Flossenburg documents returned in 1962-63.
- All the Western Allies used such documents for the Nurnberg-type trials.

- Sydnor: "Mr. Wolfe ... was ... the chief of the Captured Records Branch in the National Archives for about 35 years, and ... was himself as a member of the U.S. Army part of the military occupation, part of the U. S. military government in the U. S. occupation zone in Germany."

- Wolfe has very strong views on the "chain of custody" issue.

T00857 - **** END of Sydnor testimony on 2001/06/05 ****

Charles Sydnor; P00858 - 897; 2001/06/06; Vol. 6
[2001/06/06, Wed.; P00858 - 897, Vol. 6; Sydnor]
[Top] [2001/05/30] [2001/05/31] [2001/06/01] [2001/06/05] [2001/06/06] [Bottom]

P00858f - Tigar: "The OSI has the depositions of a Mr. Henrikson and a Mr. Segat [a video] which were taken in prior litigation, quite some time ago", which they want to submit.
- Tigar suggests that they simply hand it to the court; whereas Ms. Johnson insists reading portions of it into the record, which Matia allows.

P00861 - The night before Ed Nishnic and Johnny Demjanjuk search the 10,000 prosecution files and found another statement from Jacob Reimer, which Tigar submits as DE GG.
- Drimmer indicates that there are confusions in dates and Reimer is in two places at once.

P00863f - Drimmer re-direct examination of Sydnor (resumed)
P00866 - Presumably Lysij quote: "Upon arrival in Trawniki we were held in a two-week quarantine. We were then photographed. After that they began to summon us one at a time to the camp staff headquarters, where forms were completed on us at the table."

P00883f - Tigar re-cross examination of Sydnor.
**** **** **** **** **** **** **** ****
- Tigar questions Sydnor about height of Danilchenko (about which testimony varies from 177 to 184 cm) who admits that Danilchenko's own testimony of 184 cm should be most reliable.
- [W.Z. Did not Gitta Sereny interview Danilchenko before he died?]

P00885 - Sydnor does not recall but admits that he must have seen DE GG, the Jacob Reimer testimony.

P00887 - In 1980, David Reimer did not tell Sydnor about the Danilchenko testimony.
- He did not say, "Look, I've got a protocol from some fellow named Danilchenko that contradicts your expert opinion."
- [W.Z. Of course, the OSI had the Danilchenko statement in 1978 or 1979.]
- But Tigar leaves this hanging.

P00889f - Tigar: "You might disagree with him [Robert Wolfe], but he is known as the Godfather of the OSI, isn't he?"
- Sydnor: "Well, that's what he says, yes, sir."

- "His contributions to the preservation of captured German records, his assistance to now two generations of historians, not just in the United States and Canada, but in Europe and in Australia, and his influence on the German and American extent of collaboration on documentation, certainly entitle him to be a major figure that everyone, I think, respects in this regard."

- "He has been honored both by the United States and by the Federal Republic of Germany for his contributions as an archivist to the preservation of the records of both the Nuremberg war crimes trials, the agencies and ministries of the Third Reich, and the history of the Holocaust.

- [W.Z. There was another Wolfe who was a supporter of Demjanjuk. It is not clear if this Wolfe is a tool of the Holocaust Industry.]
- Once again Tigar just leaves this hanging.

P00891f - Further re-direct of Sydnor.
- Drimmer submits:
- GE104 = list of all documents used by the OSI, which have been in existence for at least 20 years, and are found in [reputable] archives.
- GE105 = list of 80 underlying documents to above.

- [W.Z. The OSI seems to emphasize that these documents have been in existence for at least 20 years. I am not sure what the significance is. Perhaps these can now be categorized as historical documents whose authenticity can no longer be questioned.]

P00897 - Tigar emphasizes that these documents came from Israel via the former Soviet Union; Lithuania, Russia and Ukraine via the former Soviet Union; and the German Federal Archives via the United States.
- None of the documents were in possession of the bearer.
- Sydnor cannot be certain that any of the documents were prepared by a person having first hand knowledge of the information therein.

P00897 - **** END of Sydnor testimony in trial ****

[W.Z. Summary:
Charles Sydnor has been involved with the OSI for the past 21 years and seems to be intimately familiar with all the OSI personnel. Peter Black of the Holocaust Museum and 6 OSI historians helped prepare Sydnor's report. He openly admits that his primary goal in testifying for the OSI against Mr. Demjanjuk is to try to discredit revisionist historians. He takes every opportunity to parrot the catechism of the Holocaust Industry that Operation Reinhardt was an attempt to exterminate all Jews in death camps and that guards trained at Trawniki were integral instruments in this extermination. No evidence of involvement in crimes is required; the guilt is by association.

Sydnor expects to publish a book on Reinhard Heydrich in the fall of 2001.

Without access to the exhibits being discussed, the long complicated testimony of Sydnor is extremely hard to follow. And Tigar often neglects to emphasize the significance of his points. Nevertheless there are several points, that we feel should be emphasized:

- Of special significance, is that after Ukr. MGB translator Z. Bazilevskaya had examined and signed the Trawniki ID card #1393 on March 12, 1948, within 6 months the NKVD/KGB had issued a wanted poster for John Demjanjuk as a traitor to the motherland dated August 31, 1948. This was repeated on July 29, 1952, with a picture either identical or very similar to the photograph on the Trawniki ID card #1393.

- The bad faith of the OSI and the Israeli prosecution is illustrated by the fact that they did not even attempt to contact Ms. Bazilevskaya to testify on these cards.

- The presumably meticulous Trawniki card file system set up by Helmut Leonhardt after he arrived in Trawniki on June 18, 1942, did not survive the war. Sydnor admits that none of the Dienstausweis presented by the OSI came from this card file system.

- Also of interest is the March 23, 1961 interrogation of Engelhard, who presumably was a German associated with Trawniki and Sobibor. He specifically did not recognize Mr. Demjanjuk as being at either Trawniki or Sobibor.

- It would be interesting to obtain a full profile of Robert Wolfe, "Godfather of the OSI", who was chief of the Captured Records Branch in the National Archives for 35 years. He was also part of the U.S. military occupation in Germany after WWII.]

P00897 - **** END of Sydnor testimony in trial ****

Leo Curry; P00898 - 925; 2001/06/06; Vol. 6
[2001/06/06, Wed.; P00898 - 925, Vol. 6; Curry]
[Top] [2001/06/06] [Bottom]

P00898f - Ms. Michael Johnson direct examination of Leo Curry.
- Leo B. Curry; operates a janitorial supply business; served in U.S. Army during WWII; drafted in spring of 1943 ... landed on beach in Normandy on June 6, 1944; private first class; summer of 1946 hired by U.S. Army war crimes trials in Manila, Philippines as an investigator for the defense; associated with U.S. Army Claims Commission in Philippines; Displaced Persons Commission (DPC) in November 1948 in Germany/Austria until February 1952.

P00901f - DPC issued 360,000 visas to refugees immigrating to U.S.
- DPC was created via Displaced Persons Act of 1948.
- Initially assigned to Ludwigsburg, Germany; Salzburg, Austria; Vienna.
- Testified in the 1981 Demjanjuk Trial, and 3 other trials
- DPC cooperated very closely with the International Refugee Organization (IRO)
- All prospective immigrants had to be "of concern to the IRO"
- IRO personnel filled out the personal history questionnaires for the applicants via a translator.

P00908f - Counter Intelligence Corp (CIC) conducted investigation of each applicant. IRO file and CIC report sent to [case analyst] Curry at DPC.
- conducted interviews only if some conflict arose. Only 2-3 percent interviewed.

P00912f - GE2.1 = Demjanjuk's application
- Johnson steps through it, item by item.

P00916 - Curry concedes that there were forcible repatriations in 1945 but certainly not in 1950.

P00922f - Tigar cross-examination of Curry.
- 7 to 9 offices, 3 to 4 case analysts per office, 8 to 10 cases per day.

[W.Z. Summary:
This is the "official" version of the immigration process as related by U.S. bureacrats. It differs drastically from the more realistic version painted by Nikolai Tolstoy in the 1987 Jerusalem trial. I am surprised that Tigar did not refer to Tolstoy's testimony.

Neither is there any reference to the Watkins(?) Amendment, to which Mr. Demjanjuk referred in his Jerusalem testimony indicating that the U.S. government was fully aware that many immigrants had presented false information in their immigrant visa applications.]

P00925 - **** END of Curry testimony on 2001/06/06 ****

Segat/Henrikson; P00925 - 950; 2001/06/06; Vol. 6
[2001/06/06, Wed.; P00925 - 950, Vol. 6; Segat/Henrikson]
[Top] [2001/06/06] [Bottom]

P00925f - MS. JOHNSON: "Your Honor, the next witness will be Daniel Segat, who will be testifying by deposition, and William Kopp will take the role of Mr. Segat."
- PE90 = deposition of Daniel Segat
- PE90A = videotaped transcript of deposition of Daniel Segat
- Employed by IRO from March, 1948 to 1952
- field eligibility officer in Linz, Austria.
-processed many thousands of cases.

P00931 - GE1 = IRO Eligibility Manual.
P00933 - GE2 = typical application for eligibility for IRO assistance.
- insists that IRO personnel never encouraged applicants to lie.
- any person being a guard or helping the Germans would be ineligible for IRO assistance.

P00940 - GE90 = 1981 trial testimony of Harold Lee Henrikson
- U.S. Foreign Service, 1950, Augsburg and Ludwigsburg, July 1 - Dec. 31, 1951, was vice counsel, visa issuing officer.
- 3 vice counsels, 2 American girls, 15-20 local typists and interpreters.
- describes the procedure of issuing the visa.

P00948 - GE21 (from 1981) = Demjanjuk's visa from 1951
- Henrikson quote: "I see a signature of Iwan Demjanjuk, and I see a signature of Harold L. Henrikson."

[W.Z. Summary:
See comments for Curry above.]

P00950 - **** END of Segat/Henrikson testimony by deposition ****

Bruce Menning; P00951 - 1064; 2001/06/06 - 07; Vols. 6 - 7
[2001/06/06, Wed.; P00951 - 1050, Vol. 6; Menning]
[Top] [2001/06/06] [2001/06/07] [Bottom]

P00951f - Bruce William Menning, Lawrence, Kansas
- "I'm a professor of strategy in the Department of Joint and Multinational Operations, U.S. Army Command and General Staff College, Fort Leavenworth, Kansas."
- Professional military historian since 1986, specializing in Russian and Soviet military history.
- GE11 = Curriculum Vitae of Menning
- St. John's University, Minnesota (1965); Duke University MA, Ph.D., (1971); lecturer Miami University, Oxford, Ohio (1971-1983)
- In army reserve from 1965 to 1996; colonel
- Because he knew Russian, Menning helped Charles Fanutdichow write history of Eastern Front.
- [W.Z. How and where did Menning learn Russian?]
- conducted research in military archives in Soviet Union, Russian Federation; Bakhmeteev archive at Columbia University; Hoover Institution, Stanford, California; Military Archives of Finland and Great Britain.
- Historical research = arriving at the state of the probable.
- "Imperial Russian Army" (1992), Indiana University Press.
- 25 published articles.
- Conference in Tel Aviv, Israel, in May 1999.
- Belorussian Operation (summer-fall 1944), Operation Barbarosa (June 22, 1941), Operation Blau (summer 1942).

T00968 - Menning researched and wrote on Shandruk's army; taught classes on Vlasov's Army.

T00969f - Tigar voir dire of Menning.
**** **** **** **** **** **** ****
- sometimes after 1989, Menning's wife died [over two and a half years].
- looked in archives in the Russian Federation, but not in Ukraine.
- To write his expert opinion, Menning was assisted by OSI historians Steven Coe and Todd Huebner.

P00973 - Tigar concedes that Menning is an expert.
- Drimmer resumes direct examination
**** **** **** **** **** **** ****

P00977 - Battle of Kerch, May 8-20, 1942.
- GE21 = map of area of Eastern Front.
- 120,000 POWs as a result of Kerch battle + 40,000 earlier.
- last transit of POWs from Kerch to Rovno camp was June 6, 1942.
- GE49 to 53 = reports of German 11th Army

P00983 - GE23 = map overlay of rail network serving the Eastern Front from 1941-45.
- After 1945, Rovno is in Western Ukraine.
- GE92 = Demjanjuk's 1981 testimony (only few weeks in Rovno)
- GE85 = Demjanjuk's deposition of 1978
- There was a German POW camp at Chelm [Kholm]
- Both Rovno and Chelm were strategic railway centers.

P00990 - GE48 = POW statistics for Chelm
- GE40 = summary statistics for GE48 indicating fluctuations from 20,000 to 464 in 1944.
- fluctuations in part due to high death rate from typhus, typhoid and dysentery.
- Secondly, they needed these POWs as workers.
- Menning testifies that it is unlikely that a POW would remain in Chelm more than a year.
- [W.Z. And it is even less likely that a Jewish collaborator would stay in Treblinka for more than a year.]
- Chelm [Stalag 319] closed down May 15, 1944 and moved to Skierniewice.

P00994 - Matia: "I come from a Polish background, and I don't think they look like they sound at all." [referring to Skierniewice]

P00995 - GE66 = movement of last 464 men from Chelm
P01000 - march route for 14th Galician Division in Zilina in Slovakia
P01001 - The old 14th SS Galician Division, which was hammered at Brody [in July 1944] and the remnants of which were sent to Slovakia to regroup and fight partisans.
- On Jan. 15, 1945 marched on foot to Styria to fight Yugoslav party partisans.
- They got to Graz in March 1945.

P01008f - Vlasov's Army at Heuberg.
- It was a transit and training camp during WWII
- ROA was formed in mid-January 1945
- Vlasov became a POW in summer of 1942.
- Himmler authorized formation of ROA on Sept. 16, 1944.

- Menning: "... Hitler, who had an eastern policy, Ostpolitik, and that was essentially that he was going to enslave the eastern countries, reduce them in population by 31 million, and then govern them as satrapies."

- "... there were a huge number of so-called Osttruppen, who were primarily Ukrainians, to a lesser extent, other nationalities. There's something like 70, 80 battalions ..."

- Relationship between Shandruk's Army and Vlasov's Army was bad because of national contentiousness.
- Matia: "Not much has changed in 60 years, has it?"

P01012f - Menning reads extensively from 1952 book by George Fisher, "Soviet Opposition to Stalin".

P01017f - Drimmer reads from 1981 Demjanjuk testimony, GE92.
- Heuberg vs Oelberg. During 1981 trial Demjanjuk pronounced it Oelberg and it was written that way for most of the trial. Only later was it discovered that the spelling was Heuberg. [Unbelievable incompetence!]

P01019f - Drimmer reads from 1984 Demjanjuk testimony, GE93.2
- Menning indicates that Demjanjuk's testimony as to when he was in Heuberg and Graz is not believable.

P01021f - Tigar cross examination of Menning.
**** **** **** **** **** **** **** ****
- Tigar suggests that since 1952 and especially since the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991, far more archival information on Vlasov and Shandruk is available.
- Menning admits that he has not done any archival research on the subject.

P01025 - Menning read the Verdict of the 1987 Jerusalem trial.
- [W.Z. Did he read the relevant trial transcripts and expert submissions of Tolstoy and others?]

- Tigar on the 6 eyewitnesses against Mr. Demjanjuk: "But certainly no one ... would not attack those people as being liars or willful falsifiers, would you?"
- [W.Z. WHY NOT? THE EVIDENCE IN THIS REGARD IS OVERWHELMING.]

P001026f - Tigar tackles the issue: "And could a person who is making out a military situation report have a motive to falsify?"
- snafu and tarfu ("Things are really ...")

P01029 - 120,000 prisoners from Battle of Kerch, GE45-53.
- Menning doesn't know how the documents of the German 11th Army got into the possession of the U.S. authorities.

P01034 - Menning read the judgment of the Israel Supreme Court
- Tigar refers to Dolle statement concerning Heuberg:

- "Well, Ms. Dolle gave a statement that in June or July of '44, there arrived a first group of Soviet soldiers, and then in mid September a second larger group of Soviet soldiers arrived. Do you remember that?"
- Menning disagreed with Israel Supreme Court conclusion. He did not consider Dolle's testimony seriously.

P01037 - Some question of Demjanjuk birth date being wrong by one day.
P01038 - David Rich of OSI contacted Menning to be expert witness in April 2000; worked with Coe and Todd Huebner.

P01039f - Tigar: "Did all of the archival materials cited in your footnotes come to you through the intermediaries of the Department of Justice?"
- Menning: "They sure did."
- Menning's report was filed in October 2000
- Menning: "Last month I went to the Archive of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation to do a double-check." [May 9, 2001]

- "I mean I've become very -- in fact, the interviews with the war veterans I found so fascinating that if I weren't tied up with a book manuscript, I would nearly dump what I'm doing and go off and interview those guys before they are passed on."

- [W.Z. So the Holocaust Industry now has someone to filter the personal recollections of Soviet war veterans.]

P01043 - Menning: "However, it's like everything else, if you have a really important intergovernmental requests, yes, they are going to move to develop that. And indeed, without getting to a long story, I'm one of the few foreigners who have ever been in the card catalog, who have ever gone to the stacks to see how they go through the process and assemble archival materials just as a kind of by-product of some earlier research expeditions, so I know the people out there pretty well."
- [W.Z. So Menning is already in there like a dirty shirt.]

- Menning had been there before in 1995-96 on Department of Defense business: "So I wasn't out there currying personal favor."
- He looked for records on Demjanjuk, couldn't find it, but is confident it will be found.
- "... if I would go down to the Vinnitskaia or the Kazatkin Raion Voenkomat, I would find those materials related to the call up and so on of Mr. Demjanjuk."
- [W.Z. Menning appears to be a Russophile.]

P01045 - Menning read through 2 lineal feet of files for this litigation.
- But he didn't read the Sixth Circuit "fraud on the court" judgment,
- nor did he read Wiseman's report.
- nor did he think the problems in the Demjanjuk case arose from failure of OSI to hand over materials, but from the failure of OSI to "avail itself of historical assistance".

P01046 - DE D11 = refers to recruitment of prisoners for ROA.
- March 26, 1943 called ROA a phantom.
- The stamp indicates that the document is via Israel.

T01050 - **** END of Menning testimony on 2001/06/06 and Vol. 6 ****

Bruce Menning; P01051 - 1064; 2001/06/07; Vols. 7
[2001/06/07, Thu.; P01051 - 1064, Vol. 7; Menning]
[Top] [2001/06/06] [2001/06/07] [Bottom]

P01051f - Tigar cross-examination of Menning (resumed).
- Tigar refers to 1987 testimony [T006267] of Spektor in Jerusalem.
- Spektor refers to Ostbataillones and Vlasovites. Presumably, there is a reference to Vlasov army on July 10, 1944 and a batallion in full strength on Dec. 13, 1944.

P01054 - Steven Coe of OSI visited Columbia University Archives in February 2001 which presumably resulted in DE D21.

P01057f - Tigar introduces DE HH which refers to tattooing of personnel other than SS.
- "...there's the names of two non-SS people who were tattooed."
- Menning claims he has seen the document but can't recall when and who showed it to him.
- Tigar is finished.

- [W.Z. I AM ASTONISHED THAT TIGAR DID NOT REFER TO THE TESTIMONY OF NIKOLAI TOLSTOY DURING THE JERUSALEM TRIAL.]

P01058f - Drimmer re-direct examination of Menning.
**** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** ****
- Oelberg first appears in answers to first interrogatories, not in Demjanjuk's initial deposition.
- in 1943 ROA existed only in the minds of German OKW propaganda officials and propagandists recruiting POWs for German service.

P01061 - Menning reads from Fisher's book concerning Hitler's adamant opposition to arming non-German troops under non-German command.
- "... many of the troops that will fall into Shandruk's army come from Osttruppen units."

P01064 - Drimmer: "Your Honor, the United States [OSI] rests."

Tigar/Drimmer; P01065 - 1082; 2001/06/07; Vol. 7
[2001/06/07, Thu.; P01065 - 1082, Vol. 7; Tigar/Drimmer]
[Top] [2001/06/07] [Bottom]

P01065f - Tigar: "... we move under Federal Rule of civil Procedure 50 for judgment as a matter of law."
- Very long 10 page summary of case from defense point of view.

- "... as the Supreme Court said, to seek to denaturalize someone is to take away all that makes life worth living."
- Matia overturning Battisti's judgment in the 1981 denaturalization trial "without prejudice" allowed the OSI to renew the charges.
- GE3, the Trawniki ID card, is the basis of the whole case.
- The height of Mr. Demjanjuk is not 175 cm, nor 187 cm (Danilchenko). He doesn't have silver teeth (Litvinenko).
- Danilchenko and Engelhard misplace him in time, Razgonyayev doesn't recognize him.
- "ancient document" ruling from Kalamazoo case.
- What the OSI didn't do: fingerprint analysis could have been done
- [Tigar erroneously states ID card was in Israel in 1982-83.]
- Possibility of DNA testing
- signature doesn't match, Dr. Julius Grant.
- in 1981 the Danilchenko document was withheld from the defense and their own expert.
- "He [Bruce Menning] did no relevant archival research of his own in this case."
- All documents were supplied by OSI historians.
- Neither Menning nor Sydnor read the Sixth Circuit judgment
- OSI attacks Mr. Demjanjuk for inconsistency, but almost got Mr. Demjanjuk hanged by its own inconsistent actions.
- even if ROA wasn't authorized until 1944, people were talking about it and planning it long before.
- quotes Sherlock Holmes about circumstantial evidence.
- There are no live witnesses in this case.

- [W.Z. In my opinion, Michael Tigar does not seem sufficiently familiar with the Trawniki ID card #1393, with the testimony in the 1987 Jerusalem Trial, nor with the general situation in Europe during and after WWII.]

P01076f - Drimmer replies.
- Trawniki ID card has been found authentic and belonging to the Defendant by 8 judges.
- There are 6 other documents linked to the Defendant.
- These documents show that the Defendant was a collaborator of the Nazis from 1942 to 1944.
- We have photo identifications from Ivchenko and Danilchenko.
- His own 1948 IRO document indicates he was in Sobibor and Chelm.
- "... we have presented evidence that they are ancient documents, that they satisfy various portions of the rules, 901 and 902."
- three forensic experts testified the card is valid.
- "And the photograph, according to two of the experts, has been on that card since the beginning."
- "... those stamps do have recognizable defects that can be traced to Trawniki stamps."
- The Defendants story is not only inconsistent, portions of it are impossible because Vlasov's Army and Shandruk's Army didn't yet exist.
- There were no live witnesses in the Hammer, Hajda and Szehinskij cases.

Johnny Demjanjuk; P01082 - 1111; 2001/06/07; Vol. 7
[2001/06/07, Thu.; P01082 - 1111, Vol. 7; Johnny Demjanjuk]
[Top] [2001/06/07] [Bottom]

P01082f - Tigar direct examination of John (Johnny) Demjanjuk, Jr.
**** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** ****
- Johnny is 36 years old, was 11 in 1977 and has helped on his father's case for the past 24 years.
- He talked hundreds of times to his father about the case, who never indicated that he helped the Nazis.
- [W.Z. I don't understand what the point was of putting Johnny on the stand?]

P01084f - Johnson cross-examination of Johnny Demjanjuk.
**** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** ****
- Johnson questions Johnny about pronunciation of Demjanjuk.
- GE1.1 = April 22, 1947, "Excerpts from International Tracing Service records for Iwan Demjanjuk." Presumably this is IRO form 7.
- Johnny: "I think these exhibits I've seen only since the government produced the volumes at the start of this trial here in court."
- Active involvement since 1985.
- Knows Ukrainian (not well), but not Russian.

P1089f - Johnson: "The defense has known about the existence of Mr. Danilchenko since 1979; isn't that correct?"
- Tigar cuts Johnny's answer short.
- Lot of beating around the bush for some reason.
- Soviet article referring to Danilchenko was submitted to Judge Battisti, and OSI objected as hearsay.
- "John Martin offered it as evidence, and the government objected to it."
- OSI "... successfully kept it out of that proceeding while they had the Danilchenko protocol itself, not disclosed to us, until Judge Oberdorfer ruled that it was to be disclosed, and it was given to us at that time, in the mid '80s."
- "GE106, is that the document that was offered by the defense in the 1981 trial?" [Yes]
- Defense did not try to contact Danilchenko before he died in 1985.

P01096 - In August 1990, Johnny, Yoram Sheftel and Yaroslaw Dobrowolskyj traveled to Ukraine to interview Mr. Malagon.
- Johnny: "Yes, the late Mr. Dobrowolskyj. He passed away since then. He was not an attorney of record. He was somebody who was assisting us from the Ukrainian community."
- Johnny doesn't recall participating in the interview.
- Johnson: "Now, you became aware at a later time that Mr. Dobrowolskyj had made a tape of that interview, is that correct?"
- Johnny: "Yes."
-Johnson: "And that tape has never been provided to the government, has it?"
- Johnny: "Not to my knowledge. I didn't know of its existence myself."
- Johnny: "No. The only thing I know of the tape is what Mr. Dobrowolskyj said about it in his deposition before he died."

P01101f - Johnny visited relatives in Ukraine. Leda Ganevich in Crimea. Maria Demjanjuk for 5 minutes in Dubovye Macharenzi.
- Johnny's deposition of Feb. 17, 2000. [which is not an exhibit.]
- Whole series of questions as to whether the defense found any witnesses for Demjanjuk re Chelm, Heuberg, Graz, etc.
- All answers are no.

P01108 - Johnny: "That's incorrect. In the documents that were provided by the government, there was a statement of a man named Dubovetz who stated that he did see my father in Heuberg."

P01109 - Reference to 1992 Vanity Fair interview where Johnny "indicated that his service as a guard would be no more culpable than a Jew that had made the decision to live and spend 12 months pulling gold out of the mouths of a corpse."
- Tigar objects, sustained by Matia.

[W.Z. Summary:
I had not been aware of the Malagon tape and the Dobrowolskyj deposition.

Johnny Demjanjuk's testimony seems superfluous.]

P01111 - **** END of Johnny Demjanjuk testimony on 2001/06/07 ****

Michael Tigar; P01112 - 1119; 2001/06/07; Vol. 7
[2001/06/07, Thu.; P01112 - 1119, Vol. 7; Tigar]
[Top] [2001/06/07] [Bottom]

P01112 - TIGAR: "I spent the lunch hour with the Demjanjuk family reviewing the evidence, and in light of that evidence and the events of this morning, and in light of Government's Exhibit 100, which is Mr. Demjanjuk's July, 2000 deposition, the defense rests."

- [W.Z. SEEMS LIKE AN ABSOLUTE CAPITULATION TO ME!]

- Drimmer states that OSI will submit the depositions of Johnny Demjanjuk, Ed Nishnic, Yaroslaw Dobrowolskyj and perhaps two others.

P01113 - Matia: How do you want to do evidence matters on this? Do you want to exchange your witness lists and then come back for one day in court with respect to arguments or do you want to do it all by paper?

- DRIMMER: "We would suggest doing it all by paper. That would be the government's request, Your Honor."

- TIGAR: "I don't have any problem doing it with paper, Your Honor. As I said, most of our exhibits are things that have long ago been in this litigation. I think we are all pretty well familiar with it, and I can't imagine there's anything they would want to offer that we would have any objection to that couldn't be ruled on on paper."

P01114f - Exchange revised list of exhibits by Tuesday, June 12, 2001.
- post trial briefs and submissions on Tuesday, June 19, 2001, which are the "findings of fact and conclusions of law".

P01119 - **** END of 2001/06/07 in Vol. 7; END of trial ****